Beeson Podcast, Episode #
Reverend Dan Selbo
Date

>>Announcer: 

Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of ¼«ÀÖ½ûµØ. Now your host, Doug Sweeney. 


>>Doug Sweeney:

Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I am your host, Doug Sweeney, and I'm joined today by the Rev. Dan Selbo, Bishop of the North American Lutheran Church, or NALC, as insiders often call it. Beeson is an official seminary for the NALC. I personally serve on Bishop Selbo's Commission on Theology and Doctrine. And we try to be partners in ministry in other ways as well. We're looking forward to learning all about Bishop Selbo, Bishop Dan, as his own church people usually call him, and the work of the NALC. So thank you, my friend, for joining us on the Beeson podcast. 
>>Selbo:
Thank you so much. Enjoyed to be here. 
>>Sweeney:
Why don't we begin just by introducing you to those in our audience who are not Lutheran, may not know you or know much about you. Can you tell us just a little bit about how you came to faith in Christ, how you began to sense that the Lord was calling you into ministry? 
>>Selbo:
No, I'd be happy to do that. Yeah, I appreciate it. First of all, thanks for the opportunity to be here and really appreciate the chance to share. Yeah, I mean, how did I come to know the Lord and into ministry? It depends on how far back you want to go. I grew up in a Christian home. 
My father was a Lutheran pastor. So I guess I have to say I've never known a time in my life when Jesus was not part of my life. And contrary to maybe some experiences as pastoral children, I had a great experience. I had a good grounding. I think where I finally began taking root in my own life was probably during the high school years, had a good youth group there, some college mentors. And I can still remember an experience when I led a Bible study and they had asked me to lead a little Bible study for the group. And I was as nervous as could be. And then afterwards, several of them came up and said, you know what, you should think about the ministry and all that. 
And I thought, wow, I never saw that coming. And honestly, I fought it for a number of years. My dad was a pastor, my older brother, a family of six kids, my older brother went into the ministry and I thought, well, I don't want to just do what you're supposed to do in our family. So I fought it. It took me nine years between high school and college to finally agree to follow the Lord's lead. 
What really got me going is I took an independent study on Dietrich Bonhoeffer and C. S. Lewis, some of their writings, and that's what sort of said, okay, it's time to move and enrolled at Luther Seminary in St. Paul. 
And I did an internship in South Africa, of all places. I had an opportunity to go overseas and have an internship there. And it really expanded my thinking in so many different ways. I actually accepted a call to go back there after seminary, and the two governments weren't getting along, America and South Africa, so they closed the door and just wouldn't let us in. 
So, I ended up in Northern California, served two congregations, the first one as an associate pastor for eight years, and then 25 years in San Jose, California, where I'd finished my ministry. But I was elected to this role in 2019, and then asked to continue in 2023. So here I am, and a couple of years later, and a couple more years left on this term. But it's just been a great, great walk, and the Lord's been faithful throughout. Thanks for that.
>>Sweeney:
I bet the pastors and seminary students who are listening to this would love it if I asked you the question about your move from regular pastoral ministry into service as the bishop of your denomination. What was that like? How did you sense that maybe God was in this and you were supposed to do that?
>>Selbo:
You know, that's a great question. I mean, on full transparency, this was not something I sought. I wasn't thinking, well, boy, I did this, now I did this. And if only I could do that, then my career would reach its pinnacle. That was never even on my radar. 
I was asked a couple of years prior to maybe back in 2017, I was approached and asked about the possibility of putting my name in in 2019. And I thought, well, I don't know. I mean, I have to really think and pray on that one and finally agreed to. And I still remember, Dr. Sweeney, that going into that election, I just said, Lord, all I want to do is just have a chance to speak and then trust that the Holy Spirit will work. And I did have a chance to speak at the convocation and finally ended up being the one chosen. 
And when I was chosen, it was like, all right, Lord. One of those moments. What are you doing with me, Lord? What's going on here? And why me? And why now? And I was out in California. Much of the North American Lutheran Church congregations are in the Midwest and East Coast. So, in some ways really felt isolated and we were all working remote and I was trying to try to figure out the remote thing. And then the next year COVID came along and it was a challenging start to say the least. But I guess in the midst of it all, I guess I really sensed this is where the Lord wants me. So I'm trusting he's going to lead and guide and he has. And you learn as you go in many things, a lot of that. So years of ministry experience certainly helped without question. But, yeah, it was a big transition. And, in some ways, six years in, I still feel like I'm learning what it means to be the leader of a denomination in that sense.
>>Sweeney:
Sure. So I'm just projecting here. I'm trying to imagine what it's like to be you. And I'm imagining day to day, every once in a while, you think, boy, there's aspects of pastoral ministry that I kind of miss, being the pastor of a local church, there's nothing more important than that. But then on the other hand, you have a rare opportunity to be the leader of a new, developing, significant American denomination. 
How do you weigh the overall balance of your ministry and the pros and cons of being a pastor versus serving as the leader of your denomination? Is it a special enough opportunity being able to shape the future of the churches in your denomination that it's worth what you had to give up, in being a regular parish pastor?
>>Selbo:
Yeah, great question. You know, there are days and there are certainly many things about pastoral ministry in a congregational setting that I just have grown to love and cherish and wouldn't want to change any of that for anything, give it up for anything. But I do feel like at this point, yeah, I'm in a different chapter in my life, so to speak, and an opportunity to have an impact beyond just the one congregation I was serving. And so to try to have a chance now to guide the North American Lutheran Church, we're only 15 years old. 
And we sort of joke internally about how we're teenagers, as a denomination. And it's funny that there's some truth about that, that we are still 15 years into it. A lot of things we're trying to figure out, a lot of distractions in life that could get in the way if we're not careful. 
So, in the role I have now to really work hard at making sure that the things that we hold to be central and key and fundamental to who we are, to not lose them. And so the core values we have in the NALC from the beginning, we're a Christ-centered denomination. It's all about Jesus and there are a lot of good things in this world that people do that they can do, but the church is centered in Christ. 
We're driven by the mission. We're mission driven. He's entrusted us the mission of the church to go in the world and make disciples. And we're traditionally grounded, meaning we're grounded in the traditions of the church, the creeds, the confessions, the things that have been there from the time of Jesus and beyond. And then we are congregationally focused. So the work, as you've been saying, the work of the church happens in the congregations. That's where the rubber hits the road. 
So to be able to help guide that and keep things focused, it's a tremendous opportunity. And the role I have now is not just shepherding a congregation, but in some ways, in a similar way, trying to shepherd a group of 500 plus congregations now and keeping us focused. 
>>Sweeney:
Let's tell our listeners just a little bit more about what the NALC is, where the NALC is. Fifteen years old. There aren't a lot of NALC churches here in Alabama. Beeson, as you know, serves an interdenominational Protestant constituency. Some of us are Lutheran, but most of us are in other denominations, other churches. 
So where are your congregations situated primarily? And what should our listeners know about what the NALC is like just as an institution?
>>Selbo:
Yeah, I mean, where to even start on that question? The NALC began 15 years ago, 2010, came out of other Lutheran traditions where those of us who were involved at the time said it's the denominations with which we were a part are going in a direction we just can't be, can't continue to be a part of, so it was time to move on. And so, we did. 
And so, when I look back on why the NALC started and everything, it really was because of what's foundational to who we are as the Great Commission, the Great Commandment, the authority of scripture. Those are the things that led to the NALC. And now 15 years into it, I mentioned our core values. The NALC’s certainly over our years have zeroed in on the commission where the call is to go into the world and make disciples. 
Disciple making is right at the center of what we're all about. And so we really work hard to not just be good disciples. I mean, a lot of our churches are real good at, people are really good at going to church and being faithful and living good lives and sharing their faith and all that. But what does it mean to be disciple makers? So we really leaned into that. 
We have about 550 congregations now across North America. We have some up in Canada, I think. about 40 churches now up in Canada. We're hoping to expand as the North American Lutheran Church down in New Mexico. We have some seeds being planted down that way as well. Most of our churches are in the Midwest, as I said, and out on the East Coast, come out of backgrounds with the old American Lutheran Church and Lutheran Church in America, if those names mean anything to the listeners. But really just came together and said, it's time to move on. We need to be focused on ... you only have one life to live. We need to be focused on what God's called us to do. 
We just rolled out a new vision for these next several years. We envision becoming a disciple-making church body committed to renewing congregations, equipping people and transforming communities. And so those three, the renewing of congregations, helping congregations sort of take a step back from what they've been doing all these years and say, okay, what are we missing? What can we do better? How can we reach the community around us in new ways? How can we be better at sharing our faith? 
Equipping them, giving them the resources they need, whether it's a just a model that they can follow or just things that they can learn from, equipping them with those resources and then transforming communities. And so, you know, I can say a lot more about that too, but those are the kind of things that we're about and where we've come from. 
Many of our churches, 500 plus churches now have come out of our predecessor church bodies and just said, it's time to move on and be with the church that we believe is more faithful to the scriptures. So that's where most of our growth has come. But as a mission-driven church body, we're really leaning into now and just kicked off this at our big gathering earlier this, I guess, in August of this year. We're really kicking off a new church planting initiative, where we're going to begin looking for places where not just finding more Lutherans to come and join us, but people who don't know Jesus, and how do we how do we reach those who have yet to come to a living relationship with Christ. So really leaning into that as a mission-driven church.
>>Sweeney:
Yeah, it's been wonderful. It's been so exciting to see the way God's at work in the NALC, and I've been so impressed with the way you have developed the NALC over just 15 years. Another really impressive thing to me as a seminary guy about the way the NALC has developed is this really nice seminary system you have established already. Beeson is a small part of that system, of course, but I'd love our listeners to learn just a little bit from you about why you have the kind of seminary system you have and what the relationship is between the hub of the system in Ambridge, Pennsylvania, and some of the spokes that schools like Beeson Divinity School get to be as well.
>>Selbo:
Yeah. Well, you just used the language that we use. We talk about a hub and spokes model. We talk about having a seminary network. And I guess big picture for the NALC. One of the things we said from the beginning is we don't want to be a denomination that is solely about bricks and mortar, trying to build things that already exist. We don't need our own publishing house, our own mission sending agency, our own whatever. But let's lean into the places that are already there. 
And so we've applied that in our seminary, and we have a headquarters. Our seminary headquarters is at Trinity Anglican Seminary, was formerly Trinity School for Ministry in Ambridge, Pennsylvania. And our seminary president is there, a couple of our key faculty are there. We have a few administrative folks. But then we partnered with a number of seminaries throughout North America. We have one up in Alberta, Canada, Concordia Seminary, with you folks in Birmingham, at Beeson. We're partnering with Fuller Seminary out on in California and in Texas and so just a variety of places where we've made connections where we really believe that our students can learn. 
They can receive good theological training in a variety of different places. You don't need to have a Lutheran history class or a Lutheran, how do you learn Greek class. You know? You can learn a lot of the things that our pastors learn in seminary in other places. So, we didn't have to have our own Lutheran seminary for those things. We asked our students to take key courses from us. And so, we get the Lutheran confessions and other things as well. 
But the big upside that I see in all this is that in providing education that happens in a more of an interdenominational setting so to speak. It really helps our students, I believe, understand better, asking the question, why do we believe what we believe? Right? Because the Lutheran Church doesn't have the monopoly on what's right. Christ’s Church is huge. 
And the Lutheran, the Reformation, I think, really brought a key piece, and we wouldn't want to give that up, on the things that we really hold to be essential to the Christian faith. We don't want to lose that as Lutheran Christians. Having said that, the witness of the church is so much broader and so much greater. And so our students in those kind of settings, such as at Beeson, can really be challenged in their thinking to say, okay, others think differently on this. Why do we land where we do? It can expand their thinking and awareness of what's happening throughout the world, as well as, I think, sharpening their own skills and their own thinking, and not for the sake of being able to defend what they believe, right? That's not so much as much as to say, well, in really being challenged along the way, then, you know, they can begin to see what the Lutheran church brings in the much greater picture of what God's doing in the world. 
And I think it leads into stronger ecumenical relationships, just a different way of thinking about not just being Lutherans or Baptists or Pentecostals or Methodists, whoever, but we're part of Christ’s Church. And as Lutherans, we bring a certain emphasis that I think is very important. It's not the only thing. And so we've been blessed by it, really have been. Yeah. 
>>Sweeney:
Yeah, I see it. I agree completely. While we're talking about seminaries and while I have Bishop Dan Selbo on the line, let me say a lot of people who listen to the Beeson podcast are thinking about seminary. You know, there's a decent group of people who tune in and listen to our podcast episodes who are thinking about, well, where does the Lord want me to go to seminary? Let me see what they're talking about at Beeson. And with our current seminary students in mind, prospective seminary students in mind, and while I have a pastor and bishop like yourself on the podcast, can I ask you for some advice for young, up -and -coming pastors in the making? What does Bishop Dan Selbo think they ought to be thinking about, praying about, doing as they prepare, we hope and pray, for a long life of faithfulness in ministry?
>>Selbo:
Wow. Yeah, big question. I guess where my head goes with that question, Dr. Sweeney, is that certainly for those who have kind of grown up in a Lutheran background and foundation, learn as much as you can about what's going on in the Lutheran Church, what we teach and believe about who we are and what's important. Learn as much as you can about Lutheran Christians around the world, what's happening in other Lutheran denominations as well. But apply the same thing to regardless of where those students are coming from, you know, in their own background. 
Really be listening to what the Lord is saying to you. Really be open to where the Lord's leading. Learn from other traditions. Learn from the things that others are saying and speaking as well. And just be really be open to, again, to where the Lord's leading. And I guess not just being open to it, but almost to the point of expecting God to speak, expecting Him to say, all right, you're open to the seminary, you're open to considering where I might be used in my life. Expect God to speak and then listen and try and really work hard at paying attention to what you believe he might be saying. And don't be looking at seminary as so much as, well, it's something I have to do in order to become a pastor, but more I think at, where is the Lord leading in your life? 
And if he's calling you into the ordained ministry, then yes, seminary is an important piece, and in many traditions a required piece to get there. But seminary is not an end game in itself. Okay, just go to seminary, get done there, and then I can go and do what I'm supposed to do. All of this is how the Lord's working in your life. And so if you're considering seminary, be open to it, listen, really, I mean, don't fight it. Don't see it as an end game, but rather as a foundation from which you can continue to learn and grow. 
Don't walk alone, lean on others, good friends, good partners, find mentors who can just give you good counsel and direction and advice and maybe help you sort things out. And I guess the other thing I'd say, especially to anyone who's in seminary or even as you enter seminary, don't ever let your study of the Lord, study of God's Word, replace your relationship with the Lord. I mean, they're two different things. I mean, a lot of learning happens in the Bible. We have Bible classes and all that, but it's that relationship with Christ that's got to be central. 
If your ministry is going to be fruitful, if it's going to grow, it's the vine and the branches and everything, even for pastors. So, stay connected to Christ in your life. Keep him front and center. Pay attention and he'll guide you. He'll be paying. He'll lead you where he needs to go.
>>Sweeney: 
Amen. Bishop, one last question. We have a very prayerful community podcast audience. When I have guests on the program, I'm always asking them how our people should be praying for them these days. And I hope this podcast episode will prompt our listeners to pray for you personally and pray for the North American Lutheran Church as well. Could you give us two or three things that maybe we could focus on as we pray for the NALC and its bishop?
>>Selbo:
Sure, sure. I give you a long list of things if you had a lot of time, but certainly a challenging time to be the church and challenging culture in which we live. But also a tremendous opportunity, I think, in this growing mission field in North America. 
So my prayers for wisdom and discernment, certainly in my own role to try to know, okay, Lord, what is it you want for the North American Lutheran Church? Where is it you're leading? For wisdom and discernment to truly really be able to pay attention and hear what the Lord is saying and all that. 
Praying for new students and for the students in our seminaries and for new students as they're considering it. Again, in a growing mission field that the church needs shepherds, so praying to the Lord of the harvest to raise up labors for the harvest in the North American Lutheran Church and beyond. 
And I guess, in the mission driven focus we have for, I mentioned the church planting initiative that we're going after, and we're going to really try to lean into that in a big way, but also for how can we have an impact around the world? How can we see beyond ourselves here in North America to say, okay, Lord, what is it you want us to be doing throughout the world to have an impact in the lives of people we may never even meet? So those are some of the things that come to mind. Yeah, any prayers in those direction would be great. 
>>Sweeney:
All right, friends, you have been listening to Pastor Dan Selbo, who is the Bishop of the North American Lutheran Church. Please pray for him and for the NALC in days ahead, that they would discern the Lord's leading for the NALC, that he would raise up lots of people who want to participate in the harvest in the years ahead. He'd raise up some wonderful seminary students who want to go on and pastor churches in the NALC. And please pray for Bishop Dan as well, as he continues to lead this great new denomination into the future. 
Listeners, we love you, and we're praying for you as well. Thank you very much for tuning in. We say goodbye for now. 
>>Mark Gignilliat:

You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast; coming to you from the campus of ¼«ÀÖ½ûµØ. Our theme music is by Advent Birmingham. Our announcer is Mark Gignilliat. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our Producer is Neal Embry. And our show host is Doug Sweeney. For more episodes and to subscribe, visit www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast. You can also find the Beeson Podcast on iTunes, YouTube, and Spotify.